Broken English

[yakalskovich]

Oh damn, how does one tell a fanfic author on AO3 that their ideas are charming and one would like to see more of them, but it's blaringly obvious that English isn't their first language (I'd guess French or maybe Italian), and they should get a beta. Because what they write is worth reading, but I just can't -- all that without kicking off a flame and wank war?

There is no PM function on AO3, either.-

Comments

[paceisthetrick]

I am actually very tolerant of foreigners making mistakes. Your English is exceptionally good -- near-perfect -- but most foreigners do not have that ability.

The ones I cannot tolerate are the NATIVE SPEAKERS who cannot spell, write a grammatically correct sentence or stay within one tense. The education system in this country is just total FAIL.

Honestly, I'd ignore it. If it's worth reading, who cares if she has problems at first? My bet is she will master it in no time. :)

[yakalskovich]

Actually, I stopped reading after two and a half chapters because the mistakes just kept tripping me up. And yes, those native speakers do the same thing to me. It's important to be creative, and one important part of that is to master your tools. Or to get the right sort of help with them. How can she master it without a beta?

[paceisthetrick]

Again I think it takes time. This may be her first-ever foray into the wonderful world of fanfiction.

My rule of thumb is to allow a NATIVE SPEAKER ample time to learn to correct their mistakes (usually 6 - 7 chapters to internalize the correction, to learn to think in grammatically correct English) before throwing it back to them.

For a foreign writer, I would give them 6 - 7 moths.

Maru, I would completely die if a native French speaker told me -- "Wow, your French SUCKS. You should give it up!" When they tell me a better way of saying something ("We would say 'blah blah blah'"), I internalize the correction and learn from it. I think you will totally destroy her confidence if you criticize her! Maybe she came from some little village where the schools sucked.

[yakalskovich]

I wouldn't say 'give it up', I'd say 'get a beta because your story might be worth it, if readable'. That way, she'd hopefully do as you say.

[paceisthetrick]

I still think it's too harsh.

How about -- "I LOVE your story!!! If you're looking for a beta, I volunteer!"

[yakalskovich]

Heeee. I so suck at diplomacy. But yes, I could do that.

[paceisthetrick]

Usually that's my line. After I pissed off a client, my partner had to spend an hour on the phone doing damage control. :D

But with foreigners I am very patient. I have so much respect for people who speak different languages! I made certain my kids grew up with French, Hebrew, German, Latin and

Chinese

?????

But I didn't choose that last one. LOL

[yakalskovich]

I think Chinese is considered very good for your general ability to learn languages, because it's so different from all the Indo-European ones.

[paceisthetrick]

My husband's grandparents founded a medical school in China in the 1920s. His mother grew up there and we have tons of Chinese stuff all over the house. His grandfather wrote a memoir of living there. So the girls grew up with that. And he had always planned on our living in China for a year. So it was actually quite logical.

I just remember being astonished when my youngest one selected it as an elective.

[yakalskovich]

Well, why waste something that you have anyway? And she probably had an advantage on the others in that class due to the influence of all that background.

[paceisthetrick]

Of course that was more than 75 years before she was born....

LOL

But yes, we do have contacts in the country and I am certain one or the other of them will make it there. Their half-sister (considerably older) taught English in China for two years and sent them all sorts of baby gifts -- Chinese shoes and baby gifts.

[yakalskovich]

Definitely a theme there!

[paceisthetrick]

oops, meant to say "horses". :) (You can tell I am trying to beta for someone as I type, eh?)

I love Chinese history. Most of the family -- his side -- has been so I am certain it will happen one of these years.

[yakalskovich]

Oh yes, and why not? China's not the dark side of the moon any more!

[paceisthetrick]

No of course not. One of my closest friends -- married to an American -- is from Beijing.

K, MUST work! I promised to have this chapter finished and I am willing to bet you will have one in my Inbox when I finish.

:)

I take Shabbat off these days to rest for show season. Starting next month I work 7 days a week, 15 hours a day. It's grueling and all the worse for the heat (ugh! 40 C here).

But we'll chat later, eh? I want your help with a student of mine. He is 1/2 French, 1/2 German, will definitely be a scientist and wants to do university in one of those two countries. I recommended the Sorbonne (his father is French) but didn't know what to recommend for Germany. (His mother is an accountant. LOL)

Thoughts?

[yakalskovich]

Depends on what sort of science. For the practical, the Technical University here in Munich is quite good, and there's one in Darmstadt, of all places, that has brought forth interesting inventions.

[paceisthetrick]

The father is a physicist. I think the equivalent of a German MIT would be best for the kid. He already competes in national science competitions.

[yakalskovich]

There is nothing like 'a German MIT', as universities are organised a bit differently here. I don't know the answer right away, but know whom I can ask, and will.-

[paceisthetrick]

Thanks. The dad went to MIT. The kid wants to go to Europe.

[yakalskovich]

Understandable.

I'll ask the Nazgul. She studied chemistry and knows the science scene, so to speak.-

[brickling]

The Sorbonne doesn't teach science any more. That was moved to a university with the creative name Université Paris VII (or whatever number) wich is an absolutely uninspirational block of concrete.
In Germany you can't go wrong with the TU or LMU München. There are some (sometimes very small) universities that have a very good rating for their science department. You would have to check current rankings though.

[paceisthetrick]

Oh thank you so much!

He is in the IB program in high school here (which qualifies him for international schools). He speaks both languages (he's 1/2 and 1/2). His father is French which is why I suggested from France but he actually was the one who said he thought might like to try to study in Germany since he has so many relatives there.

I'll pass the info on. Thanks!

[paceisthetrick]

And be nice to the non-native speaker! You may destroy her ego in one fell swoop. :P

[yakalskovich]

Yes, ma'am!

[paceisthetrick]

Go the circuitous route -- leave a comment praising her fic. Later you can mention that you'd be happy to help her with her English grammar. :)

[yakalskovich]

KK -- nice idea.

[ceitfianna]

First I'd start with the fact that you really enjoyed the story and then ask in a comment how they feel about constructive criticism. Then go from there, I don't think it will start off anything if you're polite about it and if they say no, you leave it.

[yakalskovich]

Yep, I already started on that one, as per suggestion of paceisthetrick. I was miffed at such a cute idea as that was going to waste for lack of language. Everything else is just fine.

Else, I don't bother. And I didn't want to go all 'Eeyore in chainmail' on that poor little fanfic writer.-

[ceitfianna]

Good, because I agree with Pace that you don't want to make them think they shouldn't write, but instead ways to improve.

[yakalskovich]

Yep I don't mean to scare anybody away from anything.

And, if I don't really care, I say nothing.-